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We get to talk to ex-BBC broadcaster, cancer survivor and author, CJ Grace, on how she came up with the six-part plan of surviving a divorce. She shared her personal story on how she learned of her (ex) husband's infidelity, how she dealt with it, including dealing with the mistress, and how she gained peace of it all. 

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This episode is recorded via Riverside.FM.

 

Transcript:

 

if you ain't getting fed at home, you're going to go for a t The best revenge is to get past the need for it.

 

Hey Zesties. Welcome to the Gleeful Talk Showwhere we share zesty stories to cultivate the happiness and hero. Within in this episode, we are, we're going to talk about surviving the aftermath of infidelities, such as how to stop feeling like hell forgiveness and moving on.

We are joined ex-BBC broadcaster, cancer, survivor and author of adulterers wife. How to thrive whether you stay or not. Please welcome CJ grace. Hi, CJ. Welcome to the show.

 Hi glee. Thank you so much for inviting me today. Thank you for being in the show. And you've written this book. Adulterers wife, how to thrive, whether to stay or not.

So, how did this book came about? So could you tell us a background of your, story? Well, you know, in some ways I was living a charmed life. I had a great job with the BBC meeting celebrities and politicians, and I felt like I had my finger on the pulse of current affairs.

Then I got a transfer to work for China radio international in Beijing, which was really an exciting assignment to get. I was a journalist advisor there. And in Beijing, I met an American guy and we had a fairytale falling in love. And if you fast forward, 25 years later, best wedding anniversary ever, we spent it in Hawaii.

I thought that we were closer than ever before. And little did I know that just two years later, both my marriage and my health would be in tatters because he was carrying on an affair with a woman that was half his age, whom he refused to give him. And I was diagnosed with breast cancer for the second time I carried that BLCA gene, similar to what Angelina Jolie has and soar is a death sentence if she didn't deal with it.

So it was a terrifying, double whammy that hit me at that point. And one of the ways I got through it was by, I didn't want to be a victim. I wanted to keep my sense of humor because I was brought up on one too hyphen, but I also did a lot of writing. And the book came out of that. The first book, adulterous wife, how to thrive with you, stay or not.

And I also am completing a second book based on my cancer and infidelity experiences called Hotel Chemo: My Wild Ride Through Breast Cancer and Infidelity. So the adulterous wife book did come out of personal experience, but I interviewed a lot of women some men too because there are so many.

Things that you just don't hear about and what I hated about how people dealt with adultery and, and all the sites you see on, the web. So much of it was vitriol, it was people blaming and getting angry and all these revenge strategies. And that just wasn't for me, I knew in my heart that the best revenge would be to get past the need for it.

Whether I stayed with my husband or I moved on revenge was just not the way I wanted to go. And that was the main theme of the book that the best revenge is to get past the need for it. And ways to just get off that horrible, emotional roller coaster that infidelity throws you in. It was such a roller coaster indeed, with a health issue and then the infidelity.

So just flashback on when you discovered the infidelity. So what narratives that pop into your mind when you found out? And of course this will not be an overnight overcoming of the situation. So how did you go through about it Yeah. I mean, I found out about it initially from a text on, my husband's phone.

I was transferring data from one, older phone to a new phone when a text came in. Oh dear. And the, the whole point was that my ex. He's now my ex cause we've got divorced. He was not willing to give this woman up. He just was not willing. And in fact, once I found out he actually offered me a part time wife position, if you can imagine, you know, I'd be, he said to me, well, you know, I'd be perfectly happy to spending two or three days a week with her.

So the week with you, and I'm perfectly capable of loving two women at once. And to be amazingly, I actually can. I did that proposal for a few months and the original subtitle of my book was not adulterous wife, how to thrive, whether you stay or not. It was adulterous wife, how to thrive if you choose to stay, stay.

Because there are a lot of women who do stay with people who have been unfaithful. But it's much more likely to be successful in those cases, if the husband or the wife, if the wife has been unfaithful is willing to give up the girlfriend or the philandering or whatever it is. It's a very difficult road.

If you stay with somebody who is going to continue. Philandering or continue having a relationship with somebody else because if that's not what you've agreed to at the beginning, if you haven't agreed to an open relationship right from the start it's not an open relationship. It's being forced on you.

It's not consensual and it will not make you happy. But I, I actually thought about how to navigate around. For a few months, because you know, you don't want your relationship to collapse. You don't want your whole life, your home, you know, your, everything that you've believed is, stable to just fall apart.

So I did even think about it, but once I got the cancer, it was so. Glaring, the obvious that a part-time husband would not do it was just no good at all. I did not want to be treated like a doormat or anything like that. I needed to forgive him, I needed to forgive him and the girlfriend and I needed to try it.

Maintain a neutral relationship with both of them. But I certainly, wasn't going to be able to have this part-time marriage position that just wasn't wasn't going to work. Not at all. Yes, exactly. the thing is in effect it was going to be. well, she could provide the passion and I could get the taxes done.

Yeah. I don't think so. No, no, no, no, no. As what you've mentioned. You didn't sign up for it in the first instance. But it's good that you were able to overcome it after, several months, because it would be difficult to come out of this problem. If you stayed, I feel. Yeah. and, you have to, we work on various techniques to get out of that emotional hole. And I, did come up with a six part plan of how to do it. It wasn't that I just had an idea, oh yes, I need a six point plan and I'll be fine. It just evolved. There were six things that I did not necessarily in, a particular order that were key to getting over this setback and also getting over the emotional roller coaster that getting cancer put me into.

So the, the first thing I did was to find confidants and mentors who had my best interests at heart, and these were people I could vent to.

I could sort of process the emotions with some people might. Paying a counselor to, to go through this stuff. I didn't have to do that because I had friends who were actually good at counseling and they were giving me good advice. They had my best interests at heart. They really cared about what happened to me.

And those were people I could call up and go on and on and on and on. And they. go nuts and draw away from me. These were people who were really very good friends and very good confidants and I've found it very useful having men as well as women. as confidants because you get a very different impression talking to a guy about something like infidelity than you do from a, woman.

And this also ties in with my second thing that I did, which was to rebuild my community of friends. I wanted to get back to connecting with my old friends and make new ones because one big problem. And I think it's true of a lot of women is that you lose a lot of the friends you have prior to marriage.

And most of the people in my social circle. When I was married were either friends of my husbands or they were connected with a joint business that we'd built up. And of course, if you're having marital problems that last and you're going to do, if you're trying to stay professional is vent to the people you're working with.

That just doesn't work. So I couldn't really confide in any of those people. And then the third thing, which was really important too, especially with my Monte Python. Loving background was laughter therapy. I needed to do things that made me laugh. I didn't want to watch any depressing dramas. I watched a lot of comedies and you know, even being a BBC news journalist, I gave up watching the news because it's so depressing.

When you think about it, all the news is bad news. I didn't need that. I needed. That brought me up that made me laugh rather than made me feel depressed. I did not want to feel depressed. The full thing that I did, which is really important too, sort of loving my body and trying to become more beautiful in myself.

Not that I was going to ever become a supermodel or anything like that, but, you know, diet, exercise, sleep, making sure that those things were. Taken care of cause it's really easy to sort of let yourself go and really not, look after yourself. Well, when you're going through a rough patch and one of the big things that I found made a, difference to my mood was outdoor exercise.

And if there was one thing, I would recommend anybody going through any kind of adversity, feeling down, feeling depressed. If you can go outside in nature for 15 minutes a day. It is huge. It makes a huge difference to your mood. Nice. If you can do it with a friend, but just being in nature outside, moving your body makes a big difference.

As far as banishing the blues. And I found that that was a key part of feeling better. Despite these. Obstacles of the cancer and infidelity. And then the fifth thing was to try to find my passion and become more of a hedonist because I found that I had made very little time at all to do things I enjoyed.

I was very much nose to the grindstone in my marriage. Taking care of the business. I'd raise the kids ministering to my husband and I just didn't make time for anything I enjoyed. And I had to go back to think about what I loved, what really made my heart sing for me. It was writing.

Writing was one of those things and even meeting kindred spirits and all kinds of stuff. For some people, it might be playing a musical instrument for others. It might be. Volunteering for a cause that they really believe in those kinds of things are really good. And if you are doing things you enjoy that involve other people, then you're also increasing your circle of friends and you're making your own friends again, people who hopefully are kindred spirits.

So it's a really good thing to do that too. And then the final thing I did, number six on my list which actually was the most difficult. Was to try to become more mindful, more fully engaged in what was right there in front of my nose, because it's so easy to start, churning the past. If only I had done that, if I had made a different decision, then it might've been different.

and maybe this happened because of this thing that I did. And, if only he hadn't done that all of that. In the past it's gone. And then you start worrying about the future, how is it going to turn out? Where am I going to live? What are we going to do? How am I going to feel I'm going to, you know, and that doesn't help either because the future doesn't exist either.

It's just in your imagination. All you have is the now. And so the best thing to do is to try to work at becoming fully engaged in what's right in front of your nose, because you can have. Beautiful things happening in front of you, wonderful sunset or lovely people. And if you're in a crappy mood, worrying about what's happened in the past, you're not going to notice it it's as if it doesn't exist.

So it's so important to do that. you've mentioned very good points and actually I am quite curious what comedy show you, watch during that time? Well obviously Monte Python. And there's a I'd like sci-fi and there was a British sci-fi comedy show called Red Dwarf. I don't know if you ever got that in Australia.

I liked it because it's so incompetent. One of the main guys is sort of a, a lazy. So not particularly confident guy. And the other one is, incompetent, but also extremely arrogant. There's the two main characters in that show. And I loved it because it was just quite cleverly written and really you know, making fun of, pretty much everything.

So, so those were two things I liked. I also really liked I think it was a New Zealand production it's a mockumentary, What We Do In The Shadows. it's a fake documentary about vampires living together in a house in New Zealand and how they interesting how they manage.

But it's very, very funny. And, and I, enjoyed that. So, so there were a number of different things that, I like. I liked and that I listened to. I remember one of the things that I turned down was going to see a movie called Wild with Reese Witherspoon. And that's about her overcoming depression as she does a hike down the Pacific coast trail in America.

And it's supposedly a fantastic film, but it's about somebody dealing with depression, not what I needed. Absolutely not. and I do you like the British humor more than anything else. So I was sort of going back to some of my old favorites. Some of them are only available on sort of old YouTube clips actually, but, those were the things I really liked.

And I found sci-fi too, because if it's especially tongue in cheek, sci-fi films, like guardians of the galaxy that made me laugh The only thing I didn't like about that first film was the scene where the main character's mother is dying of cancer in the hospital. And there she was chemo, bald just as I was chemo, bald, and I could have done without that scene.

But apart from that, I really enjoyed the movie. And so when you. were recovering from all of this, you were based in Hawaii at that point in time in California. I was because I sort of bounced between California and Hawaii. So I'm I still spend time in both states.

But currently. As we're recording this, I'm in Hawaii, which is certainly a nice place to be. I can't complain because I was just thinking whether, what would be your advice in this day and age that, when people are depressed and people are remotely away from families and friends, then how would they be able to cope in, case they have.

 Similar kind of situation. Yeah. Well, in the age of COVID and lockdowns absolutely. And the six part plan that I mentioned does work well for that. But it is also very important to connect. So even though. A zoom conversation is nowhere near as good as, as seeing something in the flesh and being able to hug them and really interact.

it's a pale reflection of really seeing somebody face to face, but it is. At least better than nothing. And it is an interaction that's live. That's why, for example, I I've just recently got involved in clubhouse. I have a clubhouse club overcoming infidelity. And for me, I found that it was eye opening and it was a lovely experience to meet new people and have real live conversations with them.

So I think there are things that you can do that. Expand your social circle. Even if you can't go out of your house and see people face to face. And I do believe clubhouse is a good thing to try and now it's it was invite only when it started, but it's no longer invite only. So I would recommend that there's so many rooms going on.

You can start your own club. You can. Just focus on stuff you're interested in and you do end up finding kindred spirits, people who are interested in what you are interested in, and then you end up in conversations with them, which is lovely. it's a great idea. So I was impressed by it.

I'm not particularly keen on social media generally, but clubhouse is a great way to communicate and to meet new people and to talk to I mean, you've always got the telephone and you've got zoom, but if you want to meet new people, that is one way to do it. And I think one of the things that has been so difficult for people with COVID is that you can spend the whole day when you're not even talking to anyone.

You're living on your own. In the old days you would have gone out and done this and done that and met this person and met that person and had dinner parties and all of those things, which are not available for some folks, depending on what the lockdown situations are in their location. But you can communicate.

Yeah. Through zoom, you can communicate through clubhouse, which as I said is a great way to meet new people. and the telephone for those people who really aren't happy about the internet. I think it's important to make sure you connect with maybe at least one person every year.

and just talk and just chat and talk about how you feel and also, you know, make sure you do the other things, eating well, exercising, going outdoors maintaining your circle of friendships and using the time maybe to follow a passion and create and be and feel artistic for some people.

It might be. Some kind of art project. Some people might want to write you know, everybody has had some thing that they've always wanted to do and they've never had the time to do it. Well, actually now is the time that you can do that. Doesn't mean that you're going to write a best-selling book and make a fortune, but you certainly can get your creative juices flowing and get things done.

So I think you just have to flip it and try and look for the upside in a really very dark. Kind of situation. you can't as they say in Britain, you can't put lipstick on a pig. It isn't a great situation to be going through COVID and there are a lot of varying views as to, what's going on.

What's good. What's bad. That's kind of. Irrelevant. You still have to find a way to make whatever life you have now, palatable and enjoyable. And so I would say yes, connect as much as you can through the internet, through the telephone to not feel that you're on your own. I think it's critical, absolutely critical to do that because otherwise you can get yourself in a deep dark hole and that's, definitely not the best way to, to get through the pandemic.

and just going back again on the cheating thing. So were there like subtle signs of cheating and why do you think people cheat? I think there are often signs, but generally we don't want to see them. I know. And it's such a common story that the cheated upon person is the last one to know about it.

Everybody else seems to know except except them. And I was probably in that situation too. And th there are so many reasons why infidelity happens. I think One of the most common right now is longevity because the longer people live, the more opportunity they have for infidelity and the new ed drugs that have a fairly recent invention mean that men can have You know, they can bonk until he kicked the bucket.

Basically they can keep going until they die. And that didn't used to be the case. So that increases the amount of possibilities for infidelity. And then you have another rather sad situation where celebate marriage is really common, especially in long-term relationships. And, you could say, well, if you ain't getting fed at home, you're going to go for a t akeout. Just to be semi crude about it. But, you know, in my case that, that wasn't the story. I think that my, my husband came up with a quote. He said, well, if you're not monogamous by nature, monogamy is a prison. Okay, well, that was his thing, but it wasn't what we agreed on at the beginning and it wasn't what I wanted.

And so there are people that are more monogamous than others and often it's the men that are more interested in straying than the women. I think that's the sort of environmental it's really the way that. Men and women are programmed, you know, biology, you can't in a way, get away from that.

But it doesn't mean that it's great to have to deal with it. And nobody really wants to deal with it. And in fact, there's so much hypocrisy around infidelity because often somebody can go around and be unfaithful. And then when their partners are unfaithful, they're absolutely furious. And that you don't want to put up with it.

So. it's a really strange kind of situation. And I think that there are many, many reasons why people do commit adultery or on, or they're unfaithful. Sometimes it's just a one-off thing. Something happens sometimes it's somebody just finally meets a soul. Well, and realizes that their husband or wife wasn't a soulmate.

And sometimes it's meaningless and sometimes it's not, sometimes it will affect the marriage and affect the person's views on, on their partner. And sometimes it doesn't generally speaking. If the cheating person is willing to give up the mistress and genuinely wants to stay in the relationship.

And if the other person. Wants to stay in the relationship and is genuinely able to forgive the person that's cheated, which is not an easy road, but it is doable. Sometimes you can find that the marriage is actually better than it was before. And I do know people that have, have weathered through it and they've actually done better.

And the marriage is of a great other people, they stay together, but if say the wife has been cheated upon. Can't rebuild trust and just, can't really forgive that person. That's cheated. They're always looking over their shoulder. They don't want the person who's cheated to ever be out of their sight or do anything on their own.

Then you can end up with a purgatory situation rather than a real marriage. So I think there's so many ways that this thing can play out and there's no one size fits all answer to why infidelity happens and how you. Deal with it. But after the emotional upheaval has dissipated a bit and you're more on an even keel.

Usually at least this is the way I felt, you know, in your gut, whether you really want to continue it or not, whether this person is somebody you really want to spend the rest of your life with it or not. Because sometimes an affair is as much a symptom as a cause of a breakup of a relationship.

Sometimes it's saying that this is not really the best relationship for either of you, because if it were, maybe he, or she would not have gone off with somebody else, so, I have some personal experience and that was not in my marriage, but just a, you know, like a boyfriend, girlfriend relationship, in the end, like I was happy that it kind of ended, you know, like, as you mentioned that you, you will realize or sometimes even that you realized, but you just wait for something to slip up like your, your gut was really right.

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Right. And do you know the irony? Yeah, it is. I'm actually grateful to my ex-husband and his girlfriend for doing whatever they did, because I'm so much happier on my own than I was in the marriage. And I feel so much more complete. As a person. And that was the whole point of that six part plan, because the aim was to become a more complete creative, joyful human being.

And that's exactly what happened. It doesn't happen overnight, but it's, that is what happened. And I hear that from a lot of other people, you know, that actually it was horrible to go through it. I would hate to go through it again, but I'm really glad it happened because I'm, I'm in a, so much better place than I was then and I'm not talking about when I found out about the infidelity I'm talking about actually during the marriage, you know, I'm happier than I was.

And I, and you see a lot of flaws that were in a marriage or a relationship, but you only see them once you're out of it from the outside. I didn't really see them when I was in the relationship. Yes. So when you mentioned about about staying, so do you think that if you stay in a relationship that's already forgiveness, so does forgiveness always mean that it's a second chance?

 Forgiveness is really important because otherwise you're going to get stuck in a revenge blame cycle. And I think whether you stay or not, forgiveness is important because revenge eats into you and it prevents you moving on. it just doesn't serve you.

it's like sort of hitting yourself. You think you're hitting somebody else on the head with a mallet. You're hitting yourself on the head with a mallet when you're putting all your effort into revenge strategies, however bad that person has been, it's sort of better to just put all that life energy into moving on.

Even, you know, moving on within that relationship, as well as moving on outside the relationship, if you do choose to leave obviously if somebody has been pretty bad and unpleasant and abusive in particular, then you absolutely would want to try to get out of that relationship. And I have to say glee in the research I did, I felt so Thankful that I had the husband I had, because some of the stories I heard from other women and what they had been through my story was a walk in the park compared to some of what I'd heard really, and truly, I mean, tragic, horrible stories of how. People have been treated by generally, I was talking to cheated upon women whose husbands were the ones that were unfaithful.

But that's another reason to be grateful because your circumstances could always be so much worse. And that really, I just took that lesson home from talking to a lot of others. And it was a blessing in disguise and, sometimes when you talk to other people and know their circumstances, you're in, you feel that your story wasn't that as bad as others.

So you feel a bit.

Oh my God. I mean, I don't know if you really want to hear some of the horror, horror stories that I heard, but if you would like to share then you know, one of the absolute worst, I think was a woman I spoke to whose husband was he betrayed her by molesting their own daughter. And knowing that not only that for a long while he managed, he was denying it and he got the wife committed to a mental institution and it took her some time to get out and to sort of free herself from the whole situation.

I had a hard time. Thinking of anything worse. I mean, I'm sure somebody has got an even worse story than that, but that was so horrific. And again, it made me really grateful that I only went through what I went through. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. I couldn't even imagine that some, someone could do that to the daughter and like the wife putting in a mental institution, it's like maybe the husband should be put in the mental institution.

Absolutely. Absolutely. But I think, you know, maybe how to a position of power or wherever he was, and that was horrifying. so I'm curious as well that, when people discover the infidelity, what is your advice on how to deal with the other woman? Because most of the time, the other woman is much more like stronger and feeling more having ownership of the husband or something for some reason, Well, I don't know, again, it's a gray area and I have a section in my adulterous wife, how to thrive, whether you stay or not to have a section called The mistress villain or victim, and often she's neither, but you never know what story she's been told by your husband? I think one of the most outrageous stories I heard from somebody was that they got a call. From some woman that they've never heard of. And the woman said, oh, you sound awfully healthy.

And it's so turned out that this woman was her husband's mistress or had had an affair with the, with the husband. And the husband had told this woman that his wife had terminal cancer was bedridden and she had been a terrible evil alcoholic. And yeah. The goodness of his heart, he was still taking care of her and he desperately needed the TLC from this woman to take care of it.

So I mean, there you go. Yeah. That's an interesting story from a husband to to a mistress. So you just don't know. And the, the bottom line is the mistress did not get into that marriage vow with you. The husband did. And Often it's easy for people to just put all the blame on the, mistress, this hapless husband, you know, he was dragged out of the, completely against his will dragged out of the marriage by this evil hoppy of a woman, taking him away from, from the wife and everything is her fault.

Not necessarily. I mean, it takes two to have an affair. and you just never know what the dynamic is. And yes, there are common stories where sometimes the mistress does want the marriage to break up because she feels that if that happens, then she's got the shot at having the man to her.

And that's why often it's the mistress who goes to the wife and tells her that her husband is having an affair. And there was a very strong ulterior motive there going on clearly. so yeah, my view was I wanted to try to cultivate a neutral attitude as much as possible to the mistress particularly.

If it's a circumstance where, where the, the husband is likely to be leaving and, and living with her and whatever it is, however long or short that relationship might be with the woman that was the mistress. it's the same reason why I always wanted to be able to have a fairly neutral cordial ish relationship with my, husband, my ex, because I didn't want to be in a circumstance where I couldn't even talk to him on the phone.

You know so many of these expensive acrimonious divorces happen because the two partners are not even willing to talk to each other on the phone about basic stuff and they have to go through their lawyers. I'm sure the lawyers love that they make tons of money on that, on those kinds of things. There's often animosity between say the wife and the mistress. I don't think that my husband's girlfriend fiance now is particularly keen on me, but if we need to talk, we can talk. And you know, that's just the way it is, but we don't particular, it's not like we're bosom buddies, but I just think that for the same reason I don't like the idea of having a vengeful blaming attitude towards your partner.

I think it's the same story with the mistress. And often for instance, if somebody wants to stay with their partner, who's cheated, they. Wanting to put all the blame on the mistress, because then they can get their head around staying with the with the husband. If it's the husband that's been cheating because oh, no, it wasn't really his fault.

It was all her fault. Yeah. Rationalizing that your actions of staying and then putting the blame on the mistress. Yeah, and I do caution against, the angry wife going to call out the mistress and behaving in a very emotional way towards her. Because once you've done that, you can't take it back.

once you end up running yourself on your emotions, once you do these things and having sort of weird behavior of, because you're feeling so crap about the whole situation you can't take it back. And my view was whatever I wanted to do, whatever. Decision. I needed to make whatever behavior I felt like, whatever action I felt I wanted to take I didn't want to make snap decisions based on my emotions.

what I had to do was actually stop, breathe. And think is this going to serve my own long-term best interests, whatever I did, is this going to serve my own long-term best interests. That's really important because it's so easy to run off on your own emotions. Make a complete ass of yourself and then, the mistress can say, oh, I really understood why you left her.

She's crazy harpy. You know, why would you want to be with her? You know, because anybody in that mood, when they first found out is going to maybe feel inside a bit like a crazy harpy doesn't mean they are a crazy harpy, but you really want to try to take the high ground. And you will thank yourself in the future for doing it.

vengeful angry behavior, screaming and shouting type of behavior. Never makes you feel good. in the long run never makes you feel good. Doesn't make you feel good about yourself. So it's the best thing to do is to try to. Keep your emotions under wraps, especially when you're dealing with the mistress with with the other woman.

And I think it is, in some cases people don't have anything to do with them at all, which is fine. But in, in other cases, it's necessary because If the marriage breaks up, then your former wife or husband will, may well be having a, a long-term relationship with that person. And you have to navigate around that.

So I would take the high ground. That's what I would always try to do. very good advice. And even though it's very hard, when you you're in that situation, but it's, it's very insightful. And, what advice could you give your past self if there is during that time.

I think I've dealt with it more or less. Okay. I I think I could have tried to dissipate those emotions a little bit more quickly. it took me a while to. get my head around this six part plan. It didn't come out overnight. And maybe if somebody had presented me with it at the beginning if somebody else had written my book and given it to me, maybe I would have actually got through it faster.

I'm sure I would've got through it faster because it took some time. It took time to work out. These. Ways to navigate through a difficult situation. I was lucky I had some good friends and good mentors that I could lean on during this period. But certainly yeah, I had to work it out for myself and it's always good.

If you can have a leg up and, learn from somebody else's experiences. Yes, but I believe as well that it was a process and since it was a process and it's learned through experience, I think it's much more impactful. And that's why you're able to impart these learnings to your readers of the book. That's right. And I do have a free PDF that I put together called overcoming infidelity tools to team the roller coaster of negative emotions. And that contains some of the exercises that I did to dissipate those negative emotions. And I also have in there a wonderful exercise. On mindfulness using chocolate.

Cause I am a chocoholic. I have to admit that. And it's an exercise I've found. I'd love to say I invented it, but I found it's used No school children in Britain use it. So if kids can use it I'm sure we can to, to become more mindful, to become more focused on the present moment, they use that in schools.

And so I included it in that PDF. And I also put together a little video, a short nine minute video on how to do it. So you can follow along with a wrapped piece of chocolate, if you like. And that's all available on a page on my website, and you can access that page by going to CJAuthor.com. CJAuthor.com.

that Was useful stuff going through that type of practice, different practices to learn how to become more mindful to get off that rollercoaster really important. Cause you do. Land on it when infidelity happens. no way of avoiding it. It's always going to hit you in the gut and create a whole load of emotions that you would rather not be going through.

Awesome. Thank you so much for. For all your insights and sharing your experiences. I'm sure our Zesties would really benefit from it. And before we wrap things up, CJ, I have some few fun questions for you. Are you ready? Oh, I'm ready. Yes. All right. So if you could have a billboard with anything on it, what would it be and why?

Eat chocolate now it'll make you happy.

That just came out of my head, you know, but eat it mindfully, use my exercise and enjoy it. Yes, you might. You might do my exercise and eating chocolate will never be the same again. It'll be a whole new.

 Three songs on my playlist. I love Phil Collins. That's all is a good one, because it's a sort of, screw that I'm just going to move on.

That's all, you know I think it's called that's all, but it's one of my favorites. And I also like Melody Gardot I'm trying to remember which track I like the best from her. Your Heart is as Black as Night whenever I hear that, it actually reminds me of my boyfriend in London actually, who sadly we've because of COVID we've been separated, but so be it, but it's a wonderful song, Melody Gardot Your Heart is as Black as Night. I think that's the title. But I know it's the first line of the song, and then you want something else.

Let's see a third song. Oh, you know, there's another one that it's going to be a very weird one that nobody else will have chosen. They may have chosen the actual, the song itself, but not the way it's played. It's Fragile by Sting, which I think is a beautiful, beautiful song. But there is a ukulele player who has done an amazing version of it.

And his name is Jake Shimabukuro from Hawaii. if you're an older person from England, you might think of George Formby when you think of the ukulele, which is not great, very nasal singer and, and, and sort of, tinkly not tinny sound from the ukulele, but Jake Shimabukuro is in fact, the Eric Clapton Of the ukulele.

So CJ, where can our Zesties find you?

Yes. Well, I have a website first of all you know, I go into more detail about that six part program in that comedy self-help book, Adulterer's Wife: How to Thrive Whether to Stay or Not. And that mini ebook that I mentioned overcoming infidelity. Tools to tame the roller coaster of negative emotions that is available.

If you go to my website, my website is actually called AdulterersWife.com and I hate to say it the, but it is a terrible, terrible name for a website because nobody can spell it. And what's even worse is there is a believe a porn site that's spelled similarly to it. So my solution to that was to get a different URL, to go straight to the page where I have my.

Free PDF the tools to attain the rollercoaster of negative emotions. And that is CJAuthor.com. Much easier to remember. I also have an Instagram account and that is @CJGraceAuthor is my Instagram. And I am on clubhouse CJ, grace for clubhouse, and I have an overcoming infidelity club on clubhouse that you can also join.

So you know, one thing that I would want to say to people is that, you know, There is hope after dealing with adversity like infidelity and breast cancer. And in some ways I'm living proof of that. So if anybody listening to this is feeling lousy right now, you really don't have to put up with it. Just imagine how much better your life could be in six months time or a year.

And please do go to my website because I do have tools for you on the overcoming infidelity ebook, the free ebook, you can follow along doing that chocolate mindfulness exercise, and you can also get my book, adulterous wife, how to thrive, whether you stay or not. And those will go into much more detail about how to get off that horrible .

Horrible rollercoaster of negative emotions. So that's, that's it. So CJ author.com. And you can always Google CJ, grace, and you'll find all the various articles I've written for places like thrive global and HuffPost and.

Places like that.

Thank you so much CJ for your time and sharing your insights on how to thrive in dealing with infidelity.

Thank you.

Hey Zesties.

What do you think of this episode? I'd be very happy to hear from you. You may send your feedback to gleeful talk show@gmail.com or rate on the podcasting platform of your choice, comment, or tag us on gleeful talk show, social media. See ya.

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